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so i got kind of excited today when i

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saw this video here

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uh david frava blah blah blah with lex

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friedman

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commander david fravor who is famous for

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seeing the tic tac ufo

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and uh being a frequent guest on various

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tv shows

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explaining what he saw now i was excited

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because

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it said down here two hours 30 minutes

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and one second

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into this this nearly four hour video

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is a response to mick west debunking

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which sounds very interesting because

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i did a lot of debunking of these videos

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anyway let's get into it and see what uh

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they have to say i have to kind of bring

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up some debunking stuff

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because i think not the actual idea not

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the actual facts of the debunking

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but the nature of the true believers

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versus the debunkers

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um well that's great you're bringing up

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debunking i'm not sure why you don't

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want to bring up the actual effects of

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the debunking you just want to talk

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about

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the nature but you know you actually do

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bring up facts in a minute

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so let's keep going hurts my heart a

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little bit because people are just

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talking past each other

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but let me kind of bring it up uh mick

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west

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i've just recently started to pay

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attention just in preparing to talk to

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you about this world and nick west is

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one of the better known people who kind

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of makes a

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a career out of trying to debunk sort of

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he's a his natural approach

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to all situations is that of a skeptic

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i think it's it's very and it's kind of

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true

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in the skeptics demand evidence for

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claims but you're saying like it's a bad

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thing

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like and my natural inclination to any

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kind of strange

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claim is to say what is the evidence

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that backs this up

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and how have you eliminated these other

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explanations

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so you know i don't see doing that as

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being a bad thing

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very useful and powerful especially for

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me coming from a scientific perspective

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to take the approach he does it's

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valuable and

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i think no matter what i think there's i

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hope that people

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quote unquote true believers are a

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little bit more open

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minded to the work of mick west i think

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it's quite useful

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and brilliant work so well i'd like to

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thank you for that lex and

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i appreciate it so uh he has some

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explanations of the things that you've

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seen in um

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with the tic tac like with your own eyes

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like he says that

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uh it's possible that you miscalculated

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the size and the distance of the thing

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and so on when you were flying around

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i don't fight that as uh i mean maybe

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you can comment on that

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let me do it right now sure so uh my

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theory about what commander fravo might

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have seen this is a very vague theory

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because i really have no idea what you

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might have seen

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is that there was something there wasn't

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moving particularly fast

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and it was perhaps something like uh a

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balloon

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tethered like a toad a target that was

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set up for something and he looks down

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and he sees this balloon wafting around

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and he goes down to take a look at it

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but he misjudges how far away it

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is because he describes it as a a

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featureless

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tic tacs i always have some tic tacs

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with me but with a tic tac you know you

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know how big it is because you know how

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big tic tacs are

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planes you know how big a particular

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plane is because you know how big that

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particular plane is

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but if you didn't know how big a plane

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was like if you couldn't tell the

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difference between say

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i don't know a 737 and an a340 which are

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different size planes

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but they were some distance away how do

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you know

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how big something was and if you didn't

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even know have any idea how big

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this craft actually was how can you tell

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a how far away it is and b how big it is

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how do you know how do you know what are

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the actual

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mechanisms that allow you to say that

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this tic tac is this particular size

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and it's not actually a smaller tic tac

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that's further away

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oh well let's see what he has to say

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what mechanism does he use

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to determine how big things are and how

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far away they are sure

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so because that comes up like how how

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did you know it was about 40 feet long i

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go

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okay so 16 years flying against other

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airplanes

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know what stuff looks like you know i've

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looked down on things so if i know i

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know here's the known things i know when

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we saw the tic tac i was at

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20 000 feet ish right around there so

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when i look down

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i know what a hornet looks like looking

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down on him because i've done it for

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all those years i mean i got a good idea

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so that's that's why i said 40 feet

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because it's about hornet size

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so and as i go around you you get to the

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point where you have to be able to judge

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distance when we fly out of experience

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and you can tell if something

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small or big you know um so i would

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argue the fact of

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you know peer experience there's you

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know

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professional observers which is what

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and having done it for so long no

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well here's the thing if you're a

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professional trained observer

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and you're saying that you're trained to

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do these things what does your

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training consist of other techniques

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that you use to actually determine how

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far away something is and how big it is

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and if it has no features how do you

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know is it simply

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purely you know seat of the pan stuff

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you you know

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how far away it is like sure like if you

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see a hornet

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you know how big a horn it is so you

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know how far away it is

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you see something that looks like the

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size of a hornet how do you know it's

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not something that's twice as big as a

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hornet twice as far away

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or something half the size of a hornet

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half the distance away how do you know

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how far away it is

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you said you know you get kind of a

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sense after a while i see you know i can

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i can

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obviously you've got a much better sense

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of where things are in space with flying

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around than i would i do have some

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pilot training not very much but yeah

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you don't really seem to have a specific

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technique

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so anyway this is not really that

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important

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it was and everyone came back with the

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same thing they're like yeah it's about

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size of hornet

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how often in your experience of those 16

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years

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do you find that eyes what you see

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is the incorrect state of things so like

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how often do you make mistakes

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with vision so a good question pilots

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make mistakes all the time

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it's uh of course human vision the

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mental system is

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fragile and fragile will now go on to

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say

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that that happens all the time but he

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just said that he relies upon

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looking at things to see how far away

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they are so

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yeah actually you make vision issues a

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lot because

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you're and the sad part is your brain

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believes what your eyes see

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we are actually trained to do the

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opposite of that especially when

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right so that's the training you're

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trained to

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not go by what your eyes see but instead

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go by what the instruments see and yet

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you just said the reason you could tell

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how big it was and how far away it was

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and how fast it was moving

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was just by looking at it you instrument

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fly because

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your brain and eyes can tell you one

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thing but you gotta trust your

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instrument so we get trained on all that

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stuff so if you

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if you want to look at it and go well

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you're you're disoriented or this side

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bill i'd argue going no i'm not because

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you know when i'm flying the airplane

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even as i'm looking at the tic tac i've

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got a heads-up display that tells me

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what my airplane's doing

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so i've got i know what i'm doing i can

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look outside i've got a sense of what

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i'm doing but i'm also looking inside to

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cross

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check of what i'm seeing is in reality

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what

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that's kind of interesting is looking

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inside to cross check what he's saying

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what did he see

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inside to cross check uh about this this

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tic tac i don't think it actually showed

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up in any of his instruments

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and also if you're looking inside

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that means you've taken your eyes off

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the tic tac whereas it kind of

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previous accounts are kind of implied

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that you had eyes on the entire time so

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interesting interesting obviously you

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have to do instrument scans and look at

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the various

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things there but you're looking inside

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the cockpit not that the heads up on the

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inside

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so there was some more stuff there about

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how he writes things down after he went

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out and how he's really good at

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observing things and how the training

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keeps him there and then lex starts

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talking about chess so i'm just going to

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and so all those years you've gotten

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good so i mean

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so what are the chances that your eyes

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betrayed you

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when you saw the tic-tac

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low zero well

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i mean i'm not zero so okay maybe 90

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yeah i am 99.9

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so 0.1 my eyes deceive me but remember

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if it deceived me it had to deceive the

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other four people so the percentage is

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even lower

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yeah look up well i i don't find that

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particular

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debunking for that it's just kind of a

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vague theory as to what frame i might

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have seen

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as you know my interest here is mostly

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with the videos so

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let's talk about those the videos for

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the

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gimbal video

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they are only interesting to me

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to me in the context of your story

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like without that they're kind of low

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resolution

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it's like it it's easier to build a

282
00:09:32,710 --> 00:09:30,080
debunking

283
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:32,720
story to be skeptical so that's just

284
00:09:35,269 --> 00:09:34,000
where i'm coming for maybe you can

285
00:09:37,269 --> 00:09:35,279
convince me otherwise

286
00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:37,279
but so to bring up mick west one more

287
00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:38,800
time

288
00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:41,760
he looks at the flare video and he says

289
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:42,160
that

290
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:44,320
one of the most amazing video uh parts

291
00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:45,760
of the flare video for people who

292
00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:46,880
haven't seen it

293
00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:50,640
is at the end of it uh the

294
00:09:57,269 --> 00:09:54,480
the the tic-tac flies

295
00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:57,279
or appears to fly very quickly to the

296
00:10:01,030 --> 00:09:58,240
left

297
00:10:02,389 --> 00:10:01,040
off the screen off the screen and what

298
00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:02,399
midwest says

299
00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:06,160
is uh that it you know midwest probably

300
00:10:10,069 --> 00:10:07,040
others

301
00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:10,079
that the way to explain that

302
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:13,040
is the tracking system like we said this

303
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:14,640
vision based tracking

304
00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:18,000
simply loses the like the object

305
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:21,120
the tracking loses it and so

306
00:10:26,069 --> 00:10:24,399
it simply allows the object to uh

307
00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:26,079
float off screen because it's no longer

308
00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:27,440
tracking it

309
00:10:34,150 --> 00:10:30,880
so i find that at least a plausible

310
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:34,160
explanation of that video looking at

311
00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:35,279
your face

312
00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:38,240
you do not so can you maybe comment to

313
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:38,720
that

314
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:48,720
fraver

315
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,920
actually answers it

316
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:53,680
it's funny how people can extrapolate

317
00:10:57,430 --> 00:10:55,440
stuff who've never operated the system

318
00:10:58,710 --> 00:10:57,440
no well that's a poor start because

319
00:11:00,069 --> 00:10:58,720
that's just saying mick west doesn't

320
00:11:00,389 --> 00:11:00,079
know anything what is he talking about

321
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:00,399
why

322
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,000
is he even asking me this question i'm

323
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:03,920
just not going to listen to him

324
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:06,399
why don't you just explain to me why i'm

325
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,680
wrong instead of telling me

326
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:09,360
like that i don't know anything about

327
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:11,519
what i'm talking about so i i can't tell

328
00:11:13,829 --> 00:11:12,640
you how many times i've watched you

329
00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:13,839
gotta remember when we looked at this

330
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:14,720
thing

331
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:16,399
when when chad came back with the video

332
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:17,760
we sat there and watched it i mean i

333
00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:18,640
can't tell you how many times i've

334
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:20,160
watched it off the original tapes going

335
00:11:24,550 --> 00:11:20,640
all right

336
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:24,560
you know because you can look and see

337
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:24,959
where the

338
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:27,760
you can see if it's looking left or

339
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:28,000
right

340
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:29,279
and if you actually watch all that stuff

341
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,959
it doesn't do that it actually when the

342
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:32,399
vehicle starts to move

343
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:34,240
the bars the tracking gate starts to

344
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,839
open up and the people at raytheon could

345
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,959
probably add to this because they built

346
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:38,240
the pod

347
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:40,079
the tracking gate will start to open up

348
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,760
and but the thing

349
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:43,360
when it leaves so fast off the screen

350
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:45,040
the pod can't move fast enough it has

351
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:46,399
gimbal rates on how fast

352
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:47,519
that thing can move around because

353
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:49,600
there's another so

354
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:52,000
he's saying that the speed of the object

355
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:52,880
leaving the scene

356
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:56,880
exceeds the gimbal rate of the

357
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,550
i don't think that's true and the reason

358
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:04,880
i think it's true is that the camera

359
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:07,680
is tracking at a certain rate from left

360
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:10,000
to right and it's not a very fast rate

361
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:12,000
it's a really really really slow rate

362
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:14,160
it's about um

363
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:16,800
one degree every quarter of a second

364
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:18,079
they're about

365
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:20,959
not very fast at all it's basically

366
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,760
about

367
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:24,160
this rate the rate at which i'm turning

368
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,920
my hand

369
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:27,519
right now you know i'm hardly moving it

370
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:29,120
but it's going about one degree every

371
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:30,079
quarter of a second

372
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,959
it's hardly moving it's hardly moving at

373
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,240
all

374
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:37,200
and then what happens is the object

375
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:38,800
leaves the scene

376
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:42,639
angular rate

377
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,200
as the camera was previously tracking

378
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:51,269
so one of two things must have happened

379
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:54,320
either the object was being tracked at a

380
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,120
certain slow

381
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:57,040
angular rate and it suddenly accelerated

382
00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:00,000
to twice that rate so it went from going

383
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:02,320
uh one degree every four seconds or

384
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,200
quarter of a degree

385
00:13:08,069 --> 00:13:05,760
a second to one degree every two seconds

386
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,079
or about half a degree per second which

387
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,240
is still very very very slow and you've

388
00:13:16,870 --> 00:13:12,720
seen these systems they do this

389
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:16,880
yeah the cameras can quite easily move

390
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,959
a much faster than a half a degree a

391
00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:20,240
second or a quarter of a degree

392
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:23,600
of a second the other alternative

393
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:26,720
is that instead of

394
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:30,079
the object doubling in speed

395
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,680
it stayed the exact same speed and the

396
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:33,360
camera speed dropped to zero

397
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,760
the camera stops tracking it at a

398
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:37,519
quarter of a degree per second

399
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:40,320
and the object simply left the scene at

400
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:46,829
you don't explain why that isn't the

401
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,440
case

402
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:51,760
another theory that oh the pods looking

403
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:52,560
forward

404
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,920
when the pod passes underneath the

405
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:55,120
airplane so if i'm looking at you and

406
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:56,320
you pass underneath me as

407
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:57,839
does this the ball will actually flip

408
00:14:03,910 --> 00:13:59,760
around to kind of finish off

409
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:03,920
and it'll it'll hmm

410
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:05,519
this seems completely wrong to me i'm

411
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,440
afraid uh

412
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,600
we've seen time and again that when you

413
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:11,279
pan from left to right with a forward

414
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:11,760
fella

415
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:15,519
facing infrared then the the ball is

416
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,360
pointing down or up it's not exactly in

417
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:19,440
the right line then when it gets to this

418
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:20,560
point

419
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:23,920
it can't actually keep tracking uh from

420
00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:25,120
left to right there's no

421
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:27,120
way of actually possibly doing it it has

422
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:28,560
to rotate it has to be a gimbal

423
00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:29,360
correction

424
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,600
at that point if it's going underneath

425
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:33,199
then it doesn't so much

426
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:35,680
i think commander framer here appears to

427
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:36,959
be confusing the way

428
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:39,040
helicopter cameras are mounted so when a

429
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:40,720
helicopter mount camera is mounted it's

430
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:42,160
mounted vertically

431
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:43,920
so the ball is at the end of a cylinder

432
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,560
which rotates so when it goes underneath

433
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,079
or perhaps he's thinking about simply

434
00:14:50,470 --> 00:14:49,920
when the pitcher flips upside down

435
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,480
because it

436
00:14:53,829 --> 00:14:52,880
needs to be be corrected so instead of

437
00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:53,839
it being

438
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:56,880
twisted around it just rotates it inside

439
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:58,000
the camera but it's not actually the

440
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,639
gimbal

441
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,639
uh correction rotation what we're

442
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:02,240
talking here about is the actual housing

443
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,360
the external housing

444
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:04,880
as you if you're pointing down you're

445
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,639
moving from left to right you can't

446
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,320
actually pan from left to right with

447
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:10,000
that that system so it has to do this

448
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,639
rotation

449
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,639
it's in the patterns you describe it in

450
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,639
the pattern it's about having to rotate

451
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:16,240
around zero degrees and the things they

452
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:18,720
do to to try to minimize it so

453
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,800
i think uh i think you'll find you're

454
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:22,959
wrong about that

455
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:25,360
it'll it swaps ends because it has you

456
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:26,480
know it's a gimbal

457
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:30,079
what does that mean swap end i mean

458
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:32,079
it's pointing this way and it tracks you

459
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:33,600
down and then what

460
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:35,839
yeah it's gonna swap around you can't do

461
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:37,360
that because it's not mounted that way

462
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:38,720
you can only do that when it's going

463
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:40,880
forwards and going left to right so it

464
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:43,600
doesn't make any sense symbol it can't

465
00:15:47,189 --> 00:15:44,000
just

466
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:47,199
it's not free floating um but there's a

467
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:48,399
theory on one of them oh it's here and

468
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:49,519
it flipped over it doesn't do that when

469
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:50,639
it's looking out in front

470
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,880
all right so if it doesn't do that why

471
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:54,000
does it do it

472
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,360
in your video chad underwater video

473
00:16:00,470 --> 00:15:59,680
you can very very very very very clearly

474
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,480
see

475
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,959
the entire scene rotate when it's

476
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:04,480
approximately around zero degrees i

477
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:05,519
think it's like three degrees left or

478
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,120
something like that

479
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:09,600
but it does this rotation exactly where

480
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:10,880
you'd expect if there's a gimbal

481
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:11,920
correction rotation

482
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,480
when the camber is facing forwards and

483
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:16,399
panning up or down a little bit and then

484
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:18,480
traverses the zero degree mark

485
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:21,120
it has to do this rotation you see it in

486
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:23,199
chad underwood's video

487
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,639
so why are you saying now that it

488
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:26,480
doesn't do it

489
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:29,600
seems like you're wrong front it stays

490
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,399
like this

491
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,639
so that yet another another debunker who

492
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:33,920
doesn't know this so

493
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:35,920
you know well i don't know lots of

494
00:16:38,710 --> 00:16:37,199
people have agreed with me on that one

495
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:38,720
and the patents seem to agree with it

496
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,680
and the

497
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:41,279
the general mechanics of it seem to

498
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,279
agree so

499
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,959
maybe i'm right when mick has had

500
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:46,399
several theories on

501
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,079
other of some of the other videos like

502
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:50,240
one of them the go fast as a bird

503
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,000
and jeremy corbell actually did a nice

504
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:54,720
job thank you lex

505
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:56,800
thank you lex that was great or a

506
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:58,959
balloon uh i wish you followed up on

507
00:17:05,909 --> 00:16:59,360
that

508
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:05,919
is a balloon

509
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:07,839
secondary theory or less likely is that

510
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:15,350
commander david fravor is quoting

511
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,720
filmmaker jeremy corbell who says that

512
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:20,160
it couldn't be a bird

513
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,839
because it's colder than the ocean and

514
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:23,600
if it was colder than the ocean it would

515
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:23,919
be

516
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:26,319
dead as if this is some kind of

517
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:27,199
debunking of

518
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,880
all of my videos it's an incorrect

519
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:33,120
debunking of a secondary hypothesis for

520
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:39,990
birds that fly at high altitude

521
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:42,000
are going to have cold exterior feathers

522
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:43,919
they're going to show up as cold

523
00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:46,799
on infrared if a bird is flying at 13

524
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:47,280
000

525
00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:50,080
feet which this object was which is

526
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:52,400
object i think is a balloon this object

527
00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:54,400
was flying at 13 000 feet it's going to

528
00:18:00,150 --> 00:17:56,720
be about 40 degrees

529
00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:00,160
colder than the air at sea level so it's

530
00:18:02,710 --> 00:18:01,200
exterior

531
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:02,720
is going to be cold because it's

532
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:05,280
insulated if this exterior was hot that

533
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:06,799
would mean it'd be pumping out heat and

534
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:08,960
it would die

535
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:12,080
so insulated bird will appear cold on

536
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:12,880
infrared when

537
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:15,600
in very cold air especially against the

538
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:16,160
ocean

539
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:20,400
surface which is 40 degrees warmer

540
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:23,520
kobelt debunked nothing there

541
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:26,640
he just threw out this straw man

542
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,799
and lex knows this lex knows that it's a

543
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:30,799
straw man and said or a balloon

544
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:32,559
but unfortunately did not follow up and

545
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:34,720
say well what if it was a balloon

546
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,160
because fragrance got no answer for that

547
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,880
of saying no it's not because he's on

548
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:42,240
he's on black hot so the

549
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:43,919
the white object is actually colder than

550
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,520
the ocean um

551
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,039
that's flying while birds aren't colder

552
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:48,880
than the ocean they'd be dead

553
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:51,919
so it's like he's just repeating

554
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:54,000
what jeremy corbell told him without

555
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,039
even thinking about it

556
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:00,240
a gimbal video to comment on

557
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:03,520
the amazing aspect of that video is the

558
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,760
rotation the apparent rotation of the

559
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:06,960
object that

560
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,000
is something that is not

561
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:12,960
possible to do with systems that we know

562
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:13,760
of

563
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:18,400
and uh midwest suggests that uh a flare

564
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,160
like reflections or whatever can explain

565
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:24,880
no because what mick right so yeah

566
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:26,000
another good question

567
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:27,760
is bringing up my hypothesis for the

568
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:29,440
rotation of the

569
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:32,240
uh gimbal object which i think is the

570
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,960
glare

571
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:34,880
of the engines because it's infrared and

572
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:36,320
it's looking at the engines of a distant

573
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:37,120
jet

574
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:39,120
very very hot it makes this glare and

575
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:40,400
the shape of the glare is defined by

576
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:41,600
part of the camera and part of the

577
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,120
camera rotates

578
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,679
and uh that makes the shape of the glare

579
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,440
rotate not the object not the like the

580
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:49,760
the image just the shape of the glare

581
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:52,720
rotates and it would be great if

582
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,080
commander forever could actually

583
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,880
address uh this issue but uh i don't

584
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:58,320
think he's going to

585
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:00,559
what mick west doesn't see is so when

586
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:02,960
they take because i've talked to the

587
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:04,960
one of them actually i work with so i

588
00:20:07,510 --> 00:20:06,480
know him i know i talk to him all the

589
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:07,520
time

590
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:10,400
so uh and it's his best friend actually

591
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,200
shot the video

592
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,960
one of his best friends but they give

593
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:14,640
you a video i think moving both of them

594
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:16,000
the go fast and the gimbal were shot by

595
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,000
the same person okay

596
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:20,320
so uh and they were in each other's

597
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:21,600
wedding so that's how well they know

598
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:22,159
each other

599
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,280
okay so what you don't see is

600
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:27,840
so the airplanes are flying still super

601
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:29,840
hornets but they have the apg-79 which

602
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:30,640
is the new

603
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:31,919
phased array radar that's made by

604
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:35,120
raytheon things incredible okay

605
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,720
it doesn't usually if it's if it's out

606
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:38,480
there and it sees it it's real so at

607
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:39,840
first they thought they were

608
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,120
right uh clarification here just because

609
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:45,440
i'm saying what you see in the video is

610
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:47,360
a glare it does not mean that it is not

611
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,400
real

612
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,480
here's a flashlight i made it like a jet

613
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:52,480
engine it's got a little tube on the end

614
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:55,760
turn it on you get a glue it's from a

615
00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:56,799
real object

616
00:21:00,470 --> 00:20:59,120
but it's a glare this is the glare that

617
00:21:01,590 --> 00:21:00,480
you see

618
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:01,600
doesn't mean it's not attached to

619
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:02,720
something it's attached to this very

620
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:04,400
real object it's not lens flare this is

621
00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:06,080
lens flare over here moving around it's

622
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,559
this

623
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:08,799
it's just the bright area around a

624
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:09,840
bright light

625
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:12,640
i'm not saying it's not real i'm saying

626
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:13,919
it's an actual

627
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:15,840
jet powered airplane out there in the

628
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:17,360
distance that's just you're looking up

629
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,880
its tailpipe so you're looking at the

630
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:20,400
very hot engines and so you're seeing

631
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,760
glare

632
00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:23,760
that's what the question is but yeah i'm

633
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:25,360
not hearing any answers

634
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:26,559
they were ghost tracks when they started

635
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:27,679
seeing stuff and then they actually

636
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:28,960
threw one of the targeting pods out

637
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:30,400
there well the targeting pod there's a

638
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:31,840
heat signature and you go hey dot heat

639
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:33,039
signature something's there

640
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,960
it's real it's not you're not picking up

641
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:36,559
some extraneous things so

642
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:38,720
what you see in the gimbal video of the

643
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:40,240
thing and it rotates and you go holy

644
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:41,200
[\h__\h] look at that thing it's just

645
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:42,320
sitting there and it's in the wind and

646
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:44,240
it's going against the wind why it's

647
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:45,280
doing this

648
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:46,480
you know someone goes oh it's an

649
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,760
airplane now if an airplane does this

650
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,120
it's eventually going to start to change

651
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,360
aspect

652
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:53,840
it's not doing that you don't even

653
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:57,919
understand what the actual argument is

654
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,880
it's in a turn

655
00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:00,159
this thing doesn't change aspect it just

656
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:02,000
rotates right

657
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:03,600
the other thing that you see when you

658
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:05,520
talk to them is so they're on their

659
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:06,159
radar

660
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,600
there's an object that they identify as

661
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:11,360
their number one priority or their

662
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:13,200
launch and steering

663
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:14,640
so when they designate that that's where

664
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:16,159
the targeting pods gonna look that's

665
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,840
what you get on the gimbal video

666
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,760
there's five other i think it's five

667
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,440
they're kind of in a v you know like a

668
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:22,559
geese would fly

669
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:23,760
that are out in front of it and they're

670
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:25,520
actually coming they're out in front of

671
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,720
it and they actually turn

672
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,240
on the radar and go the other way while

673
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,400
they're filming the gimbal video

674
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:31,840
you know if you take it in context

675
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:33,760
because you go oh it's just the video

676
00:22:36,149 --> 00:22:34,799
well if you take the video with the

677
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:36,159
radar going no there's actually other

678
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,280
things out there because

679
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:39,280
there's at least 60 people that have

680
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,559
seen the

681
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:42,720
oh my explanation the video doesn't

682
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,240
change if there's other things out there

683
00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:46,240
it's still why is it rotating it's

684
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:47,679
rotating because it's the glare and part

685
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:48,960
of the camera is rotating which makes

686
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:50,320
the glow rotate

687
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:51,520
sure maybe there were other things

688
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,880
flying around we didn't see them on the

689
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:54,559
video apparently they were on the radar

690
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,039
but

691
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:57,520
how how close were they were they some

692
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:58,559
other planes

693
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,919
you know were they miles away or were

694
00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:01,840
they right next to it he said they were

695
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:03,440
going in the other direction

696
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:06,559
all i have to look at is the video

697
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:08,080
i'm trying to explain what i see on the

698
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:09,919
video the fact that there's something

699
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:11,200
else that's not on the video

700
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:12,799
doesn't change what's actually on the

701
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,240
video

702
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,720
sitting in in 70 knots of wind stay in

703
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:17,919
the same location they all say

704
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:18,880
they had an airplane because there was

705
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,799
two there's the gimbal thing that's a

706
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:22,559
pretty big object

707
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:24,080
there's also they talk about it looks

708
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:26,080
like a cube that's inside of a sphere a

709
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,440
translucent sphere what's that

710
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:29,039
transparent how is that

711
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:32,000
and see now we're just getting onto

712
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:33,360
something completely different this was

713
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:34,320
supposed to be the

714
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,640
response to mick west debunking segment

715
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,240
and it's nothing to do with that

716
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,240
fraver was asked about you know why does

717
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:42,240
it rotate what do you think of mick west

718
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:44,480
glare rotation explanation

719
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:46,320
obviously he's never heard of it

720
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:48,320
obviously if he has heard of it he has

721
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:52,080
no understanding of it based on his

722
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:55,679
repetition of jeremy corbell's cold bird

723
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:58,320
debunking nonsense i don't really think

724
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:59,039
he has

725
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:01,039
much interest in these these theories

726
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,720
which is unfortunate

727
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,640
understandable of course you know he's

728
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:07,120
um he doesn't think very much of me

729
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:09,039
because i'm just some guy who's

730
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:10,960
got very little flying experience and

731
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:12,559
doesn't know what he's talking about

732
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:16,080
but you know you you've been asked about

733
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:16,640
these

734
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,159
theories for a long time people keep

735
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,080
bringing them up and

736
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,880
they're not going to go away and just

737
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:24,480
changing the subject whenever they're

738
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:25,360
coming up

739
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:27,279
answering the wrong questions again and

740
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:30,400
again isn't really going to make these

741
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:34,000
hypotheses go away so if you think i'm

742
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,919
wrong

743
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:37,120
could you actually look at what i'm

744
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:38,960
actually saying and then explain why i'm

745
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,110
this is very very disappointing i

746
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:47,679
thought david fraver you know maybe

747
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:49,039
disagreed with me

748
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:51,679
and i thought he would have good reasons

749
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:53,039
for disagreeing with me and it would be

750
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:53,679
great

751
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:55,919
if he could have explained why he

752
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,960
disagreed with me

753
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:59,200
now my hypothesis about what he saw he's

754
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:01,360
not a very well-formed hypothesis and uh

755
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:02,480
you know i certainly wouldn't put any

756
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:04,000
money on it

757
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:06,320
but his explanation for why it was wrong

758
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:07,200
was basically

759
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,799
i have lots of training and i know what

760
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:10,640
i saw and people make mistakes all the

761
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:11,200
time

762
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:12,080
so they should trust in their

763
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:14,080
instruments but i saw this with my own

764
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:14,799
eyes

765
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:16,320
so i can't be wrong because i've been

766
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:17,760
doing it for so long even though i

767
00:25:23,669 --> 00:25:20,559
normally trust in my instrument

768
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:23,679
here's his response to why the object

769
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:26,080
lost lock at the end was just this going

770
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,320
too fast it's going faster than the

771
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,960
the camera can turn but that doesn't

772
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:32,559
make any sense whatsoever

773
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:36,559
like 0.25 seconds per degree is not very

774
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,480
very fast it's very very slow

775
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:40,480
and saying that the gimbal doesn't

776
00:25:44,549 --> 00:25:42,000
rotate when he goes past

777
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:44,559
zero degrees he's also wrong it's just

778
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:46,159
plain wrong he seems to be confusing it

779
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:49,039
with helicopter mounted gimbals

780
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,240
uh the go fast debunking video

781
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:53,919
that uh the gopass hypothesis i put

782
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:56,400
forward being a balloon thank you lex

783
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,799
he just says well uh mick west says it's

784
00:26:01,190 --> 00:26:00,320
a balloon but it can't have been a bird

785
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:01,200
because

786
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:03,360
uh birds would be dead if they're colder

787
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:04,960
than the ocean which you know

788
00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:06,559
is nonsense in itself but he's just

789
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:10,320
ignored the balloon hypothesis

790
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,080
and uh gimbal alex says mix

791
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:15,840
wick west says it's a rotating glare and

792
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:17,120
he says well it can't be because there

793
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:24,789
makes no sense whatsoever why couldn't

794
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,200
it be

795
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:27,360
a rotating glare of something and there

796
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:30,159
were five things off to the side

797
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,720
you say how amazing it is that it was

798
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,400
rotating a normal plane couldn't just

799
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:36,400
rotate and hover there like that

800
00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:37,679
well yeah that's because it's not

801
00:26:40,789 --> 00:26:39,120
actually rotating and that's what the

802
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:40,799
entire hypothesis is about

803
00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:43,440
it's about explaining why it is rotating

804
00:26:46,950 --> 00:26:44,320
and why it is

805
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:46,960
apparently rotating so this has been

806
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:48,080
very disappointing

807
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:53,200
though i don't expect it to change very

808
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:54,320
much

809
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:57,600
i don't think i would like to be proven

810
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:58,080
wrong

811
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:01,760
david uh if you could uh

812
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:04,080
find it find some time perhaps to talk

813
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,440
to me about it that would be great i

814
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:06,880
would be very happy to do so and we

815
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:07,840
could actually

816
00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:11,360
focus on what i see as the actual issues

817
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,799
with the video

818
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,559
and you can tell me i'm stupid to my

819
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:16,559
face if you want and you can explain why

820
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,679
i'm stupid but

821
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,760
here you haven't done that you've called

822
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:20,880
me stupid

823
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,360
but you haven't explained why i'm stupid

824
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:24,960
you haven't explained what i actually

825
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:25,360
got

826
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,919
wrong he just flat said it was wrong but

827
00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:29,520
mostly you just

828
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:31,120
explain something else like the bird

829
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,840
would be dead when i'm talking about

830
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:34,080
balloons

831
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:37,279
or it can't be a glare because there

832
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,000
were five different objects on the radar